the woman who you first fell for on Girlfriends and now adore as network TV’s best mom on Black-ish has settled into what is perhaps the defining role of her lifetime: Black beauty entrepreneur and advocate.

Being a Black Hollywood icon comes with a sense of responsibility—a single hairstyle choice has the power to shift public perception and personal narratives. No one understands that better than Kerry Washington. For ELLE.com's inaugural State of Black Beauty cover story (and just days before their back-to-back nights hosting the Democratic National Convention), Ross connected with her friend and fellow Emmy nominee via Zoom to discuss how they show up for Black women and each other.

Kerry Washington: I was just texting you on one of our threads. We have so much to talk about [Laughs].

Tracee Ellis Ross: I know. I have a lot of things I need to update you on and I'm sure you have some for me!

KW: Yes, yes, but I want to start talking about you and this incredible journey with your company. It's born out of your own journey with your hair and you've now given so many of us a better toolbox to be able to be on that journey with you. I want to know when the idea to birth Pattern came to be. How did that happen?

TER: It started as such a personal relationship with my own hair, and feeling like I didn't have the support to find what I needed. Not just in terms of products, but in terms of how to love myself. I was very supported in my family around my hair. But in terms of seeing all different kinds of versions in the wallpaper of my lives out in the world, I wasn't seeing it. And I was getting confused. All of the things that I was taught from the media were like, I was supposed to have easy breezy beautiful hair. Bouncin' and behavin'. My hair didn’t blow in the wind! All of these things didn't match up.

I was a track runner. So I was sweating out my hair all the time. And I swam. So there were all these things that were occurring for me personally, and I discovered that there were so many other people who were experiencing the same disconnect. There was a void, in both seeing ourselves in our natural, authentic beauty, and also having products that would work for us to do our hair naturally—to wear it the way it naturally came out of our heads. It was after Girlfriends that I wrote my first haircare brand pitch. And it was not received the way I thought it would be received [Laughs].

KW: What do you mean?

TER: Right before Girlfriends ended…I used to shop at all the beauty supply shops that were on Wilshire and one of the stylists was like, “You don't know the amount of people that come in here with a picture of you pulled out of a magazine and they want your hair. If you were to do a line of products, you'd be a millionaire.” I was like, “What? My hair?” And, you know, there was no social media at the time so there was no connection between the community and me.

Then I went to an event for Curly Nikki, who was one of the original natural hair care bloggers and there was a line of women around the block, all wearing their hair naturally. It was the first time I saw the larger community. That's what started to give me this idea. But the journey was a slow one. Our beauty was not a part of the standard or culture of beauty. There was no real frame to hold.

KW: I mean, I can't think of a better person to be having this conversation with.

TER: The importance for me in the journey has been encouraging, inspiring, and making space for people to go on that journey with themselves. To have the courage to dive into their own legacy of hair as a way to love themselves and be revolutionary.

KW: This self-acceptance feels so core, right? The self-love that comes from self-acceptance, not, “I have to transform into something other than who I am to be beautiful, but just as I am, I am beautiful.” But that's hard.

TER: It's so hard. It's a painstaking daily journey. You and I—I want to backtrack just to give us a little context for the world. There's an assumption that all the Black actresses know each other. The truth is, we do. [Laughs]

KW: We do. [Laughs] Most of us do.

TER: Most of us. But we have had a really long-lasting friendship that started early in our careers. We share so many intersections. Our lives cross over in so many different, unique, very sacred, and intimate ways, all while being Black actresses. You have shown up for me in my life in so many ways. Remember when I was hosting the NAACP Awards?

KW: I do.

TER: I was hosting with the cast of Girlfriends. I was really nervous, and Kerry came just to be in the audience so that there was a face I could look out at—somebody I knew was rooting for me and supporting me. That's at the core of my relationship with beauty. It's about like-minded, like-heartedness, and women who are willing to let their lives be about being of service to something bigger than just their egos. There's a lot of beauty in that.

KW: Sometimes we can feel like speaking up on our own behalf looks like ego. But asking for what we need—whether it’s a friend at an awards show, or speaking up in the hair and makeup trailer, or in our relationships—it is a part of how we express our work, not necessarily our ego. How do you navigate that?

TER: With a lot of support. It takes a lot of courage to advocate for yourself. As a woman, and as a Black woman, advocating for yourself is actually a form of resistance. It is how each of us push the world to make sure that the real estate matches the reality of who we are and what we deserve.

KW: [Snaps fingers] Preach and poetry! It's true. To be part of a marginalized population, as women, as people of color, as both, just the act of saying “See me, hear me, don't push me to the side, just value my presence here in the center of this moment,” is terrifying but necessary.

TER: And every courageous act that a marginalized person takes opens up a space for somebody else.

KW: It's for community.

TER: It is. I like to use the acronym for ego of Edging God Out. Often, if you look at it from that perspective, then speaking up for yourself is being of service to the god within you. It is you stepping up and saying, “I deserve something better.”

I have issues sometimes with the word “empower,” like, “We're going to empower you.” Because often, for so many marginalized people, yes, they don't have power on the outside, but they do have that power in the inside. The system is mirroring back a powerlessness. That's not the truth, but we so often believe in the system—because how could you not?—and you think that's the truth.

KW: People always say, “Oh, she gives voice to the voiceless.” It's like, nobody's voiceless. Everybody has a voice, it's just, are we listening?

TER: One of the things I've been thinking about is what good leadership is. It's really about listening and creating space for those who continue to reimagine. Bringing forward that idea of shared leadership, as opposed to the patriarchal idea of one leader who does it all. I was going to ask you, when it comes to using your voice, what does it take for you? I always find it helpful to hear the different ways that people experience similar things because it gives you other options in life. Often the experience of being a marginalized person, of being a woman, of being a person of color, we are siloed off.

KW: Yes.

TER: That is one of the ways that the system keeps you powerless. The system says, you're alone in this, it's only you. The more that you link arms and realize the fellowship that occurs in the same feelings, the more power you have. It's the same thing with the storytelling of the experience. The more I hear other people's narratives and how they've navigated through, I go, “Oh, that's an idea that I could use.”

KW: In our industry, and in a lot of industries, we're not just siloed, we're also told these myths about one another: “That one over there, she's difficult,” or, “That one, she's crazy.” And that too is a weapon used to keep us from linking arms and creating community and shared power. I love the idea of sharing narratives of how we navigate. I feel like that is what we do all the time.

TER: [Laughs]

KW: So speaking up for myself: One is, if I'm not sure how much ego I'm grappling with, I try to talk it out with somebody. And journal about it to get a sense of how much am I operating out of fear in this moment: Is my fear rational? Is it based on real dynamics at play, or am I telling myself stories about unknown situations just to fill in the story with fear that I know? So journaling or talking to friends really helps. I'm finding that the more I speak up for myself, I have remember it. To write down that it went well. Because I'm trying to rewrite the myth that it's something I'm not allowed to do. So I have to acknowledge it, go back to that same friend, and say, “It went okay. Help me remember that that went okay so that I can rewire myself to know that speaking out for myself is loving and positive and leads to good results.”